Katherine Froggatt (00:01.33)

Alright, welcome everyone. Thank you so much for joining. Now I just want to start by acknowledging you. most women finishing cancer treatments are handed either a congratulations or a pamphlet and sent home. Nobody talks about what treatments actually strips from your body and why you are still exhausted months later or what you can do about it today. So today's conversation changes that and I'm so excited.

To you know, bring on my special guest who is joining me today. before we actually get started, I just want to take a moment to say thank you. Thank you for being here, for pressing play, for choosing to show up for yourself today. It is a very important acknowledgement that we often forget to do for ourselves. And so I'm here championing you in your corner, whether you're in the middle of treatments or on the other side or supporting someone you love.

I just want to say thank you. This space is for you. I absolutely appreciate that you're spending time with me and my special guest today. So thank you. Now let's get into it. Alright, so I just want to ex introduce my beautiful guest, Lee Tan. She's a pharmacist with over three decades of experience who made a bold pivot from conventional pharmacy into health, metabolic, and nutrition coaching.

Lee Tan (01:16.526)

Thank

Katherine Froggatt (01:31.463)

Lifestyle medicine is her secret source, and also additional training in neutral genomics and environmental medicine. She's also a founder of Well and Being in Dunedin, this beautiful space, and is an award winning urban wellness center that brings together ancestral wisdom, modern science under one roof. So Lee's philosophy is simple. There are no shortcuts when it comes to health, and today she's here with me to give us some knowledge.

Lee Tan (01:52.59)

Thank

Katherine Froggatt (02:00.319)

That most women going through cancer treatment never gets handed. Lee, welcome.

Lee Tan (02:06.317)

Hello, thank you so much for having me on the show.

Katherine Froggatt (02:10.429)

Thank you, Lee. well you and I met at the the best place ever in a health conference. So I just wanna really say, you know, I'm super excited that we're having this conversation today and and that we have something in common in our mission to help women. So before we begin I really love for you

Lee Tan (02:26.038)

We actually We actually met online, you know, in this format. I think we were in a coaching lab together.

Katherine Froggatt (02:37.322)

Of course How could I have forgotten there? Wow

Lee Tan (02:38.23)

Yeah, and then you were like up in Taupo or something and then when you moved down to Queenstown I reached out because I was based in Dunedin. But anyway, that's our backstory.

Katherine Froggatt (02:49.708)

I love this backstory. Thank you, thank you. This is true. And there are moments where I just forget those micro moments. Thanks for jolting that memory for me. So before we get started, I I mean Lee, you have a phenomenal history you know in pharmacy and lifestyle medicine. So tell me about your journey please in your own words and and and what got you owning the spa.

Lee Tan (02:57.816)

Ha ha ha!

Lee Tan (03:13.536)

Wow, that's yeah, this podcast like, you know, 40, 30 minutes is probably not quite enough, but cut a long story short, we all know what we all went through nearly six years ago. So that was a really pivotal point for me. I'm sorry, that was the dog. So during the pandemic, I was in charge of two pharmacies and we had to do the COVID vaccination response.

Katherine Froggatt (03:19.498)

Yeah.

Katherine Froggatt (03:29.971)

Mm.

Lee Tan (03:42.578)

So that was when I realized that as pharmacists, we actually had a lot of power. I could decide who gets the last or first dose. I could decide who to sell the last box of gloves to or the last hand sanitizer to. And it didn't sit well with me. I felt that that was really not in balance. So around the same time, I also had some family health challenges. So I decided to step back.

Katherine Froggatt (04:01.009)

Mm.

Lee Tan (04:11.822)

to spend time with the family. So that was during that space that I had an opportunity to lean into health coaching. So I guess if health coaching didn't exist, I wouldn't have pivoted 180 degrees. Yeah, yeah.

Katherine Froggatt (04:31.602)

Mm What a beautiful pivot though.

Lee Tan (04:36.014)

It's been absolutely rewarding, but also challenging at the same time. But I see it as a journey, as in I just look back at what I've learned from those journeys, what I have learned from health coaching, especially the mental health coaching component, the acceptance commitment therapy, really helped me over the last five years.

Katherine Froggatt (05:00.749)

now you're brought up acceptance, commitment, therapy, I love it. Which is your f your favourite metaphor?

Lee Tan (05:08.91)

My favorite, my gosh, there's so many, right? Once I saw on a YouTube video these ACT therapists and they had two, they actually had a piece of paper in front of them. Well, let's say the client had a piece of paper in front of them. And then what they was trying to do is that this is your piece of paper and

Katherine Froggatt (05:12.275)

Yeah.

Katherine Froggatt (05:24.425)

Mm-hmm.

Lee Tan (05:33.742)

on that piece of paper are all your problems and your challenges. you just, every day, you're just pushing against that piece of paper all the time. 24 hours a day, apart from when you're sleeping, you're pushing and struggling and you're just dwelling in that vortex. So then what they then did was that, grab the piece of paper, you're still pushing it away, you're getting really tired, your arms are getting really tired, you're tired of struggling.

Katherine Froggatt (05:51.12)

Mm.

Lee Tan (06:03.007)

And they said, why don't you pull that piece of paper and put that piece of paper, you know, which is full of all your problems and challenges and put that on your lap.

So then it is a part of you, then you come to accept those challenges and problems. So I don't know what, I don't think they taught us that, but that was one thing that I had learned that I use consistently with my clients.

Katherine Froggatt (06:32.11)

Super powerful. I love it. I actually really resonate with that. And the my favorite that I work with myself and my clients is how we can actually choose to drop the rope. We can drop the rope and drop the struggle. Because sometimes I just get so tired of wrestling with the same thing.

Lee Tan (06:34.837)

Yeah.

Lee Tan (06:43.071)

Okay.

Katherine Froggatt (06:55.449)

Over and over again. And I think a lot of us women who go through breast cancer have that struggle and we sometimes just hang on to it for dear life because we're so worried. What if I choose to just drop the struggle even just for half a day? So a lot of women that I work with, Lee, they they are so exhausted in a way that sleep alone doesn't fix and sometimes with the act metaphor that you just talked about, it's like, you know, really seeing the problem from in the observing self like really

separating ourselves. It's almost like we we are on a plane or we're on the the bridge and we're looking down onto the problem itself, you know. How can we pull ourselves away? And so I see a lot of clients wrestling daily with a lot of the symptoms that treatments bring up. and I just have a lot of questions with regards to, you know, just tapping to your wisdom Lee about supplements and how can they complement

Lee Tan (07:43.127)

Sure.

Katherine Froggatt (07:53.062)

what they're doing and because of your secret source with being a pharmacist. I I love to hear your point on, you know, what what would be helpful and how can they sort of reach out into these supplements to help with energy and sleep.

Lee Tan (08:09.165)

Absolutely. So I guess first of all, what's really important is actually knowing your body as in when you feel stressed, where do you feel it in your body? When you're anxious, where do you feel it in your body? So quite often we are, you know, the rushing woman syndrome, right? We're just rushing A to B, B to C, A to Z, whatever. And if we're not aware, then how can you change your response?

Katherine Froggatt (08:38.215)

Mm.

Lee Tan (08:38.495)

If you're not aware of what your body is trying to tell you, how can you really look after yourself? So I guess one of my biggest thing when I coach my clients as well is actually to be really aware. And once you're aware to catch yourself in that time and moment, you know, especially with your thoughts or if you are feeling really stressed out about a situation and just say to yourself,

I'm marinating my stress and it's gonna cause more cellular damage to every single cell in my body. So then I have to change my response. yeah, so I guess that's kind of like a mental response. So physically we all know we have to move well, we have to eat well, we have to sleep well, blah, blah, blah. I don't wanna go through that again.

Katherine Froggatt (09:33.872)

Mm.

Lee Tan (09:36.158)

So physically, like as a coach, everyone, you know, like I think the pub, Joe public knows exactly what they are. So I guess our secret source or my secret source is actually to be really aware. Okay. So when you're really stressed out due to physiological size, sometimes, for example, yesterday I was driving back from Dunedin and I left at seven in the morning and it was so foggy.

Katherine Froggatt (09:55.192)

Mm.

Lee Tan (10:03.694)

could not even see the big trucks or the cars or whatever. Straight away I felt my hands went cold, my heart started pounding, my brain started going, my God, my God, my God, right? So then I caught myself in the moment and I did physiological sighs, which is the...

Katherine Froggatt (10:14.118)

Mm.

Katherine Froggatt (10:25.039)

Mm.

Lee Tan (10:30.071)

So returning my body to homeostasis.

Yep, so yeah, so that's what I did. So I guess your question is you want to know about what additional things we can do, is that right? Yeah.

Katherine Froggatt (10:39.918)

Mm.

Katherine Froggatt (10:49.058)

Yeah, yeah. Alongside, you know, there's never one thing that I feel is going to be it. I I think sometimes allowing ourselves to just open up, you know, there could be the physiological side that I can use. There could also be, you know, just sitting on my chair and grounding my feet, you know, just for those moments. And then something else could really also amplify the outcome for us to regulate from

you know, stressful moments that impact our sleep and and that's where I find we we are opening up the opportunity for us to just allow ourselves to just do one, two or three things but not all of the stuff all at once.

Lee Tan (11:32.545)

Yeah, so I always look at our body as physical, mental, emotional and spiritual. Right, so at any given moment, I always check in and say to myself, physically where am I at? Okay, I'm a little bit tired today because I woke up at 5am or whatever. Then, but am I hungry? No, I'm not hungry. Am I tired? No, I'm not really tired. So physically I'm fine. Then I think about mentally, am I sort of...

Katherine Froggatt (11:38.797)

Mm

Lee Tan (12:00.607)

you know, worried about the fog, or am I worried about getting there on time? So as you said, using a torch and shining a torch on what I'm thinking about, then emotional will be how am I feeling? Quite often we don't want to feel, we're too scared about what feeling will bring up. So then we keep pushing down those feelings.

Katherine Froggatt (12:12.985)

Mm.

Lee Tan (12:30.664)

So I guess I always encourage clients who really lean into those feelings with no judgment. Just be really curious about why I was feeling anxious about the fog. I even thought about pulling over to the roadside to wait for the fog to pass. But I was like, hang on a minute.

Katherine Froggatt (12:47.855)

Mm.

Lee Tan (12:57.02)

Life is full of challenges. You don't know what's around the corner. If I have the tools to help me navigate the fog, then I'll be fine. So I was using all those tools, right? I was using physiological size. I was checking in with my mental state. I was checking in with my emotional state. And then I just, if you like, talk myself through those challenges.

Katherine Froggatt (13:09.849)

Yeah.

Katherine Froggatt (13:18.061)

Mm.

Katherine Froggatt (13:27.834)

Yeah.

Lee Tan (13:27.882)

So supplements wise, I guess I always say everyone should be on at least I think three main supplements. Everyone should be on it. The first one will be magnesium. It's involved with like three, I know everyone should be on it. It's involved in about, I think about 300 biological reactions in the body.

Katherine Froggatt (13:41.336)

Yeah. That's my favorite.

Lee Tan (13:51.841)

So when we are stressed, we actually use up more magnesium. We actually excrete more magnesium. And when someone's exercising a lot, you know, the muscles are using up more magnesium to do all the contractions. So magnesium is super important. Vitamin D, you know, we're based down south of New Zealand. We're just not getting enough vitamin D. So super important. Again, it's a hormone.

Katherine Froggatt (13:51.918)

Mm.

Katherine Froggatt (14:16.588)

Mm.

Lee Tan (14:21.108)

as an antioxidant as well. And then the third one will be omega-3, really, really crucial for reducing inflammation of the body. In our modern Western lifestyle, there's an imbalance of omega-3 and omega-6. We are eating too much omega-6s. So we need to eat, yeah, we have to eat more omega-3 to rebalance everything.

Katherine Froggatt (14:40.927)

Yeah.

Katherine Froggatt (14:49.369)

And there are different types of magnesium. Sorry to cut you off. There are different types of magnesium as well. Like you know, with the type of magnesium that sometimes a lady would walk into the pharmacy and then they get prescribed magnesium that actually helps with digestion. Don't get me wrong, it's it's one of the things that would be a good form to have, but there is always that confusion, right? What type of magnesium does it does should I actually be taking?

Lee Tan (14:49.428)

And I kiss the

Yeah, absolutely.

Lee Tan (15:14.976)

Yeah.

So the one that is for digestion or constipation is often magnesium oxide. and often with that you have to take it in quite high doses. So then it actually cause effect to make you to make your bowels loose. So if you think about it, if it is all coming out, your body is not going to be able to absorb it. So that's not that great for supplementation.

So one form that we recommend a lot is the glycinate form. Biglycinate, I think it's only biglycinate or sometimes you see it's just glycinate, which is if you like, they've added glycine to it. So glycine is an amino acid, so which is super important as well for everything. yeah, either magnesium glycinate or magnesium

Katherine Froggatt (15:51.799)

Yes.

Lee Tan (16:16.202)

Helate are the those are the two top bioavailable forms that your body can utilize.

Katherine Froggatt (16:24.909)

This bioavailability is a big topic, isn't it Lee? I mean, there is now recently some research that says, there's magnesium, the liposomo version of magnesium as well. Isn't it fascinating what the research is now, you know, generating in terms of supplementation? And I think I really love for you to debunk some myths about supplements because there are some people out there that are hardcore. I'm against supplementation because you know I want my body to be able to take

Lee Tan (16:42.206)

Absolutely.

Katherine Froggatt (16:55.292)

nutrition from food and I'm I'm all about whole foods and getting our nutrition through there. But there are times when we just don't have enough in our body to sustain what we're requiring. As you've just sort of rightly mentioned that we are losing magnesium as w with stress and cortisol in our body over long periods of time. So I mean what's your stand, what's your take and advice on like supplements versus food, you know, nutritionally?

Lee Tan (17:24.128)

Yeah, I think, again, modern day farming and all those other conditions outside our control, we're not really getting enough from our soils. So, you know, even if I ate a big bunch of spinach or kale or whatever, still yeah, I'm still unable to absorb all the, you know, all the magnesium, because

Katherine Froggatt (17:43.778)

A lot of it, yeah.

Lee Tan (17:54.048)

the plants themselves are not absorbing enough from the soil. They're talking about over farming, but that's not my expertise. So my feeling is that when you're busy, when you're stressed, how often do we actually sit down properly over three times a day to eat and digest our food? Most of the times they're all rushing. We're eating food in front of the screens or the TVs and...

having conversations. Yeah, having stressful conversations. So essentially we're not really absorbing our food 100 % anyway. Yeah, so I do believe in, definitely focus on whole foods, but we definitely will need supplementation because we're just not getting enough from our food. Yeah, so I I swear by magnesium every day and so do you, yeah.

Katherine Froggatt (18:23.458)

Standing up to eat.

Katherine Froggatt (18:52.001)

I do, I do. And then and fish oil, you know, I'm it's really fascinating that you brought up the fact that we are all missing omegas that are essential for us and we're taking too much omega six, which is present in so many other things that are cheaply produced. tell us a little bit more, like in terms of the quality of fish oil. I would love to learn more. especially when fish oil is so fundamental for us to managing inflammation.

Lee Tan (19:18.837)

Yeah, so fish oil, it's has been clinically proven to do a lot of things, including reducing cholesterol and, you know, inflammation and things like that. But for it to really work, you need to take quite a high dose. And a lot of people really don't want to think, don't want to swallow, you know, big capsules like that, you know, three or six a day.

So some people find it quite hard to supplement as in to take high doses. So I remember we used to sell fish oil, one big pot over 9.99, that was before the pandemic. I keep, I always keep thinking to myself, how good is that really? You know, if something is so good for you, why is it so cheap? You know, there's always a cost. So cut a long story short, if you want,

good quality fish oil by good quality expensive fish oil that has been tested. Yeah so it's I think in New Zealand there is no strict guidelines about the testing of fish oils but some brands they do go the extra mile to get their fish oils tested. Yeah so

Katherine Froggatt (20:21.633)

Mm.

Katherine Froggatt (20:32.939)

Yeah.

Katherine Froggatt (20:36.405)

Yeah. It is very

Yeah, it is very confusing to know as well, right? Like which authorities and when you when you go online and I'm not gonna name any suppliers online, but when you go it's overwhelming, right? The number of brands that are advertising, the number of advocacy that says it's research based, it's tested, you know, or not tested on animals, whatever that might be.

Lee Tan (20:59.819)

Thank

Katherine Froggatt (21:02.57)

But yeah, it is really difficult to understand which regulatory bodies are actually producing the best quality supplements and the women I'm d I'm I'm working with they are all overwhelmed with just so much on Google and you know there is a lot of dogmas and trends out there and that's the problem. So when you say tester, what are from your perspective as a pharmacist, what are the good and trusted regulatory bodies that

Lee Tan (21:23.499)

Okay.

Katherine Froggatt (21:32.34)

test with the right ethics behind it. D do you feel that you've got any to highlight?

Lee Tan (21:38.803)

It's quite hard to say in New Zealand because there's no bodies to regulate all that in Australia. They've got TGA. I think New Zealand is trying to get more strict. So from a retail landscape, right, because that's my background, obviously as retail pharmacists, we never recommend supermarket brands because they are a lot cheaper, the strength is not therapeutic.

Katherine Froggatt (21:47.424)

Mm.

Katherine Froggatt (21:52.233)

Mm

Katherine Froggatt (21:56.222)

Yeah. Yeah.

Lee Tan (22:09.183)

So in a pharmacy channel, again, there are lots of different levels of purity. So that's a retail pharmacy arena. Then the naturopaths who are trained practitioners, they have access to practitioners' range of fish oil. Now, they tend to get more expensive and those brands have more astringent guidelines.

Katherine Froggatt (22:14.551)

Mm. Yeah.

Katherine Froggatt (22:31.061)

Mm.

Lee Tan (22:38.729)

So they will, if you like, automatically make everything in their range, if you like, to have purity guarantees.

Katherine Froggatt (22:52.152)

that's very good advice and at least we can put that in your in our search, you know, to try and choose the right brands. And

Lee Tan (22:55.884)

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so I would say practitioner recommended being, you know, a naturopaths or sometimes medical herbalist or functional medicine doctors. Yeah, so I think that, again, it will be more expensive, but at least you know that you're getting the right thing. I always think if you buy fish oil that's on special and then you leave

Katherine Froggatt (23:32.307)

Yeah, yeah. Always, always quality, and we do we get what we pay for. I really think that there is no shortcuts towards producing good quality products, good quality produce. So yeah, absolutely with you on that. And I I can understand and also feel that it might be a struggle for some families, you know, especially with a global crisis at the moment. So I really love that, thank you, Lee, that you've just hung into the three, right?

I mean magnesium, you're honing into fish oil and now for the life of me I can't remember the third one that you're talking about, which is vitamin D. That's it. Thank you for taking helping me with my menopause brain. yeah, so vitamin D, magnesium, you've highlighted that, and omegas. So it's so so simple for us to just have those basic three, right? Now

I can't help with my curiosity, Lee, because you talked about inflammation just now. And inflammation is top top of mind for a lot of women going through chemotherapy and radiation. And I just wanted to hear your thoughts. I mean, wh why does inflammation matter so much in recovery? And where where do we, you know, imagine speaking to a woman who is going through treatment now, where does she even start, right? To to to s get managing and reducing inflammation.

Katherine Froggatt (25:54.738)

No, absolutely. Even though it sounds quite woo woo for us to accept that, but it's true we are very connected, you know, emotionally, mentally, physically. Yeah, absolutely.

Katherine Froggatt (27:02.311)

Yeah.

Katherine Froggatt (27:11.122)

Yeah. And I think there is a lot more research recently and science based information about how you know we we are all looking into our cells and from cellular health and really taking it deeper and we're looking into the mitochondria, right? It is part of that whole power source within our cell that actually helps us with healing, rejuvenate re rejuvenating new cells and

How we can heal from the inside out. And I think I've always been very fascinated with that, especially when cancer is talking about that cell, that tumor, the cells that grow rogue. And what we're trying to do is through chemotherapy, we're trying to zap it all, we're trying to blanket kill all of them, but at the same time, we kill our healthy cells. So

I have been very, very interested in the mitochondria supplements and how that improves cellular health. And I think you and I recently had a walk and we talked about that. And so yeah, tell me a little bit more from a supplementary level, apart from what we do in keto and cell autophagy, but from a supplementary level, what would you recommend?

Katherine Froggatt (29:06.428)

Mm-hmm.

Katherine Froggatt (29:17.147)

Yeah.

Katherine Froggatt (29:22.809)

Love it.

Katherine Froggatt (29:34.363)

Hm.

Katherine Froggatt (29:44.644)

Her hair was trending. Hm.

Katherine Froggatt (29:59.868)

Mm.

Katherine Froggatt (30:11.878)

Yeah.

Katherine Froggatt (30:19.332)

And I think top two.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And when you say environmental toxins, I couldn't help but think, you know, the toxins that we have at home and the chemical load that we have at home as well, not to mention that the plastics that we use day in, day out, you know. and I think a lot of us are becoming a lot more aware that these things have become much, much more ingrained into our lifestyle and and it is a bit of a a home

detox, you know, for us to try and have the opportunity to reduce those environmental toxins in and around our house. And then when it comes to rebalancing, I love the fact that you know the lifestyle can be super supportive in what we do and I always lean back into going back in nature because sometimes when we're out in nature in the green space we have fresh air we are away from the pollution

And the more time we spend in there, the more oxygen we are inhaling and the cell regenerates naturally. And so that's the reason why I just love to climb mountains because I'm just mad like that. But when I get up there, I get the best mental clarity and I feel so much more inspired coming back. And I feel like I I can literally conquer the world, you know, after a big tramping trip, even though I'm I'm sore, but I feel so recharged.

so thank you for sharing that. And I do love CoQ10. and I am very interested to try the new PQQ with CoQ10. I think there's some in the market as well. So yeah. Talking about let's circle back. Lee, you and I come from the same region in the world. We I come from Singapore, you're from Malaysia, and we have a blend of what we have been exposed to traditional.

Katherine Froggatt (32:10.691)

way of healing and the Western way of doing things which has been very popularized and I really love for you to let me know what are your sort of history and your touch points with traditional herbs because I think it really needs to have a bit of a space in our healing journey. and I'd love for you to just tell me how have you managed to bridge East and West and what are your traditional herbs that you love.

Which might be very similar with mine.

Katherine Froggatt (32:49.615)

Haha Yay.

Katherine Froggatt (33:03.278)

Mm.

Katherine Froggatt (33:23.802)

Yeah.

Katherine Froggatt (33:36.378)

Mm. Mm.

Katherine Froggatt (33:51.896)

Yeah.

Katherine Froggatt (34:07.635)

Mm, yes.

Katherine Froggatt (34:18.753)

Mm.

Katherine Froggatt (34:36.365)

Hmm, I feel like we need more time to talk more into that. There has to be another podcast episode on TCM and and you know, balancing adaptogenic herbs with Whole Foods and also and antioxidants, you know. you have nailed it for me because Ashwaganda is one of my favorite adaptogenic herbs, and alongside rhodiola, my two favorite powerhouse herbs that I find, because everyone is so trendy. I mean

Everyone wants to get on these adaptogenic herbs. I mean let's face it, the stress is not dissipating anytime soon with whatever that we're going through at the moment and so a lot of people are buying and I heard from the grapevine that rhodiola is going extinct. So we need to create the environment to grow more of these adaptogenic beautiful herbs and and really respect it as well.

Katherine Froggatt (35:56.002)

Yeah. Yeah. It shouldn't be an excuse for us to drop the ball on the other lifestyle aspect. What you're saying is we should still, you know, have a balance and optimization on other aspects and dimensions of the wealth and health the health of our well being.

Katherine Froggatt (36:25.536)

Yes. What a great

Katherine Froggatt (36:34.285)

That's a fantastic saying and what a great way for us to then start to wrap up because I know that we were gonna talk for another thirty minutes if we had the chance, Lee. So I know, I know. So look, I mean I would love for you to give one word of advice or one thing you wish that every woman going through breast cancer treatment knew before she started. What would be what would be your one thing to say to her?

Katherine Froggatt (38:13.997)

Yeah.

Katherine Froggatt (38:36.14)

Yeah.

Katherine Froggatt (38:54.986)

Yeah.

Katherine Froggatt (39:11.244)

Mm.

Katherine Froggatt (39:25.612)

Yeah.

Katherine Froggatt (39:34.689)

Yeah.

Katherine Froggatt (39:45.367)

Yeah.

Katherine Froggatt (39:48.748)

Beautiful. Yeah, I love her work. It's so much more in-depth of what we are able to show for other people but never show for ourselves. And it's quite a good reframe for all of us to to try and hey, have take a moment just to be, just to be us and gift ourselves the opportunity to heal from whatever that we're navigating. I love it.

Katherine Froggatt (40:36.277)

Thank you, Lee. You have given me and and my listeners so much more than what we expected. You have really allowed us to understand the mind-body connection deeply in the cellular level, really honing into our mitochondria, speaking to ourselves in a way that we activate compassion and also how we can use supplements to help us, but it isn't the only option for us to live well and be well and whatever journey that we're on right now.

We are here to support each other and I fully, fully understand how isolating it can be going through breast cancer treatments. I've been there myself and I just want you to know that we're here all as a community to support each other. And I hope that today's episode has been amazing, fulfilling. you've learned something and there's value. I know that Lee and I always have long conversations and I just feel this is only the starting point.

for us to have more conversations and I know that the next would be more of the East Meets West and how we can use herbs more towards supporting women's well being. Now Lee, thank you, but before I sign off, where can people find you and tell me more about well and being?

Katherine Froggatt (42:30.56)

Mm.

Katherine Froggatt (42:50.086)

thank you, Lee. And if anyone's going down to Dunedin, you have to visit Wall and Being. It's such a rejuvenating space. I've been there myself. and there is a float and there is a sauna for sure, and Reformer Pilates. I mean, I think people should be spending a full day at Wall and Being. Thank you, Lee. You've been so generous with your time, and I can't wait to speak to you yet again in our next session. So thank you so much everyone for joining. This is Breastwise Unafraid.