Katherine Froggatt (00:00)

I just want to say and get started by thanking you guys for joining us today because I know it's taken commitment and time for us to connect today, and I just want to say a big thank you. I have a special guest today, and I've met her through the World Wide Web, we found each other,

Katherine Froggatt (00:18)

this amazing human, Kate. She's a former librarian and a Newbury Award Committee member, now an empowerment and relationship coach for women over 40. She was diagnosed with breast cancer as well in 2025. And so coming together to work on this amazing project that I was so privileged to be invited to join and be part of. And that's the reason why we're having this conversation today. And Kate is joining us from

Katherine Froggatt (00:46)

The States and I'm in New Zealand,

Katherine Froggatt (01:09)

Thank you, Kate, for joining me today.

Kate Houston (01:11)

Well, thank you so much. I am super excited. And what's interesting is since we sent you my bio, I am still a librarian and part of the joy of the gift of cancer is there's no more tolerance for stalling. Get busy living. So I'm now a

Katherine Froggatt (01:30)

Mm.

Kate Houston (01:30)

branch manager of a beautiful library in the gorge in the States, and it's amazing.

Katherine Froggatt (01:37)

I love that. I always get

Kate Houston (01:39)

That's another part of the

Kate Houston (01:40)

story. Yes. Yes, yes, it's true.

Katherine Froggatt (01:42)

We can always make more time for that, okay?

Katherine Froggatt (01:45)

thank you. look, I think there is something really special and unique about connecting with other women who's gone through this whole boob journey together. And

Kate Houston (01:54)

Yes.

Katherine Froggatt (01:55)

you know, I like to say that, you know, we've learned so much and we've grown so much together, and I really am very excited genuinely to hear your perspective and the project we've come together to build on and then also to s to see a little bit more of what has unraveled for the both of us.

Katherine Froggatt (02:11)

through that experience.

Kate Houston (02:11)

Yay. Absolutely

Kate Houston (02:13)

happy to share.

Katherine Froggatt (02:15)

Awesome. So Kate, I guess I just wanted to check in. How are you feeling?

Kate Houston (02:20)

Today I feel gratitude, I feel energy, I feel proud because gratitude isn't just that I'm here how I'm here, but I'm proud because I made decisions about how I wanted to be here and then made

Katherine Froggatt (02:39)

Mm.

Kate Houston (02:40)

it happen. And I believe that's such a strong power in our lives, and these kinds of moments can either take us down and create a moment of

Kate Houston (02:50)

Frozenness or it can also amplify us once we have the energy, right? To step forward

Katherine Froggatt (02:57)

Yeah.

Kate Houston (02:57)

and really go for our dreams in a way that we weren't gonna willing we're not willing to wait anymore for. I think we've lost tolerances that we aren't we're not we're intolerant of things we should be intolerant of now. We tolerated too many things being just okay or so so.

Katherine Froggatt (03:15)

Welcome everyone to Breastwise Unafraid Podcast. I am super excited that I'm connecting with you today, that you press play and you decided to join into

Katherine Froggatt (03:26)

Our episode today. And I am super excited that I've got a wonderful guest tuning in, joining me for our conversation today. Beautiful Kate. She is one person that I've who found me, and I was just so privileged to be part of this special journey with you, Kate. And I I wanna say how wonderful it is that you in your capacity as a

Katherine Froggatt (03:52)

Librarian and you have also been a Newbury Award Committee member and now

Kate Houston (03:58)

Yeah.

Katherine Froggatt (03:58)

a wonderful empowerment coach, empowerment and relationship coach for

Kate Houston (04:03)

Yes.

Katherine Froggatt (04:04)

women over 40. And she and I have one thing in in common. We were both diagnosed with breast cancer. And you, Kate, your journey was in 2025. So welcome, Kate. Thank you so much for joining me today.

Kate Houston (04:18)

Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here. It is such a pleasure to get to be on this journey with you. I we were talking a little bit beforehand about how important it is in this journey,

Katherine Froggatt (04:31)

Yeah.

Kate Houston (04:32)

how connected we as women all become. You know, this whole thing happens, this breast cancer thing happens to the majority of women as are getting to the beginning of Crone Years, right? You know, we're starting that journey.

Katherine Froggatt (04:44)

Yes.

Kate Houston (04:46)

And maybe there's a reason for that to look at the the silver lining in it. It's, you know, yes, it's sucky. Let's just admit that. The journey, the treatments,

Katherine Froggatt (04:54)

Mm. Yeah.

Kate Houston (04:56)

the and what are we going to do about it after that? That's what we have control over. And the way I was able to create connection and friendships that were so immediate. And there's no doubt, anytime anybody has a friend who calls me who says, Hey, can you speak to my friend? She's just been diagnosed.

Kate Houston (05:15)

She's an immediate sister. And there's a grace

Katherine Froggatt (05:17)

Yeah.

Kate Houston (05:18)

and privilege in that because I've decided to let down any walls and just be there for someone. And that's part of the gift of this, is there's this energy of

Katherine Froggatt (05:29)

It is.

Kate Houston (05:30)

I'm worthy of being that strength for somebody because somebody was that

Katherine Froggatt (05:34)

Mm.

Kate Houston (05:35)

way for me.

Katherine Froggatt (05:37)

so true. And I think I've learned so much through this journey of writing together with you. So, Kate, I'm so excited. We we met because of a project that you've invited me to be part of. And I am so honored that we could do this together. And I think there is some elements of growth and discovery and openness that we've all gone through together. And so you are indeed a sister, Kate.

Kate Houston (06:03)

Yes,

Kate Houston (06:03)

yes. We did this. There's the book.

Katherine Froggatt (06:05)

Yay, that's beautiful.

Katherine Froggatt (06:08)

my goodness. It must be so nice like having it in your hands and actually just holding it. Wow.

Kate Houston (06:12)

yes. The pages

Kate Houston (06:14)

and reading it over. It's just so it became it it started off as something. my collaborator and co author Mia Science. she and I have known each other for over a decade and there was a time for years we touched basically, we're supposed to do a project together. There's something we're supposed to do together.

Kate Houston (06:36)

Well, little did we know we both needed to be diagnosed with breast cancer for us to then find that project, which was to lead a writing project. We started it, let's just write and see. And as it evolved, it became very clear that we wanted to intertwine our stories chapter by chapter and not just be one voice, but representing many voices. And then when we got to this piece to the middle, we thought, well, why don't we include some.

Kate Houston (07:05)

Micro memoirs from others too, which is where you came into the project. Because not everybody has the same story. There is a universal truth, I believe, that's threaded in all of our stories that stands out about the empowerment we've we've chosen to step into to make the best of it, even if it wasn't a great experience. It was how can we make

Katherine Froggatt (07:27)

Yeah.

Kate Houston (07:28)

this a catalyst for our lives rather than something that makes us catatonic in our lives?

Katherine Froggatt (07:35)

Yeah, I really love that. And I guess you you've really sort of started our chat today so strongly with connection. And I think the catalyst of what is the the spark that is really connecting women within our individual experiences and how we can see the overlaps of what we have individually experienced in different parts of the world, isn't it? And

Katherine Froggatt (08:03)

I just wanted to ask, because I know that it can be a little bit confronting, right? For a all of us to put our thoughts and feelings into a piece of paper or into words. So I have to ask you, how did the title come about, Kate? I mean, cancel the gift. How did

Kate Houston (08:19)

Yeah.

Katherine Froggatt (08:20)

these words actually come about? And how did you

Kate Houston (08:22)

Yes.

Katherine Froggatt (08:22)

manage to hold them for each of us who contributed who aren't ready to use that term yet?

Kate Houston (08:28)

Yes. Well, first and foremost, it is not meant to be an insult or a slap in the face because I think somebody new newly diagnosed may go, Pfft, my God, I can't I want to vomit. What are talking about? And that's maybe an appropriate response when you're first learning. This is from the wisdom of the experience. This isn't saying, I only think it's a gift. I went through a lot of

Kate Houston (08:56)

feelings. I went through rage. I write about the rage in the book. I went through sadness and such grief. But then I knew I got to choose where my set point was to where I wanted to where my baseline of emotions to be. And it was gratitude and the gift of like I said, that catalyst to get moving in life, to not waste any more minutes. Because it's a wake up call when you have this kind of a scare.

Kate Houston (09:25)

In your life. So I think it makes us really open up to possibility, to allowing us to lift the veil of the illusions. We don't have to be a victim to our cancer, even though we are ill and maybe a patient. And we get to feel all the feels. We're not romanticizing the suffering at all. It's very real.

Kate Houston (09:51)

But it's also sometimes those hardest experiences, that is where something sacred emerges. There's a deeper love, a deeper connection, a deeper truth unearthed. And the courage that we I don't know if we divine it from within that comes out of us, the boundaries we make now, the return to self and our commitments, and not even.

Kate Houston (10:18)

Being upset or triggered or activated by others. It's simply, okay, you can't be there for me. Okay, I need to lean on the people that can. No judgment, no criticism of them or myself, or what did I do wrong? None of that. There's no energy for that. It's simply you're making choices where you are now in your life. And that's not what I need. I need this. Surprising how many of us had stories where the people we thought who would be there for us weren't.

Katherine Froggatt (10:46)

Mm.

Kate Houston (10:47)

And the people we never would have thought being there for us suddenly stepped in. I think there's some grace in that allowing us to see and receive where we weren't expecting. And the gift of receiving is really what the book is about. Like

Katherine Froggatt (11:02)

Yes.

Kate Houston (11:02)

as women, we like to, as powerhouse women, we like to control and manage and handle and lead. But receiving is wholly vulnerable. And it's one of the most

Kate Houston (11:15)

Amazing ways to really receive and accept your worth by allowing people to be there for you without any expectation. You know, there's something really to allowing

Katherine Froggatt (11:28)

Yeah.

Kate Houston (11:28)

ourselves to receive fully, and there's a self-acceptance in that that happens, I think, as we surrender to receiving. So that's really the gift.

Katherine Froggatt (11:38)

yes, Kate.

Katherine Froggatt (11:40)

Yeah. And I think I do need to say, for me, receiving help was something really uncomfortable for me. And then asking for help to receive help. That's another layer. Like I I think in our early conversations I did say to you, my goodness, like I actually needed to make that phone call to my mom and I have two young children.

Katherine Froggatt (12:06)

And I I just received this massive diagnosis that came out of nowhere. And I'm like, I can't do this alone. And I think I had to sit with that for a couple of nights of crying and really understanding, okay, I can't do this alone. I do need to ask for help. And the hardest phone call was making that phone call to my mother in Singapore because I was diagnosed in New Zealand. And I said to mom,

Katherine Froggatt (12:31)

You know, I re-enacted this thing in my presentation recently in one of the Pink Ribbon speeches. I was like, Hi, mom, is me. I need your help. I have cancer. And I think some women actually related to this when I presented that to them in the room. And some of them had to leave the room because they are the mother who received that phone call. And I realized that that was so hard for me to accept that I actually needed.

Katherine Froggatt (12:58)

Support. I needed to allow myself to receive it. Otherwise, my two young kids would not be able to be taken care of because my husband is a shift worker as well. And so with all of these elements in place, I had to. And I wrote about this in a book in a way that like I had to reach out because they are my parents, the grandparents to my children.

Katherine Froggatt (13:23)

Even though I had to start to learn to let go of what had happened in my childhood. So, you know, it was quite cathartic to actu actually write about this and really have

Kate Houston (13:32)

Mm-hmm.

Katherine Froggatt (13:32)

that healing happen within me because it's a lot of heart and soul in there, isn't it?

Kate Houston (13:38)

and I think what we were we were we knew that supporting everyone writing would be impactful, but the level in which you all stated how transformative it was. Some people ten years out from diagnosis, some a year and anything

Katherine Froggatt (13:54)

Mm.

Kate Houston (13:54)

in between, it allowed them to make peace with a piece of it that they hadn't. This transmuted something for them and the way in which we walked through and held people.

Kate Houston (14:06)

To being in the emotional presence of those moments in the writing in a way that you also led because you picked the scenes, right? We didn't want you to pick scenes that were too much or you hadn't found some peace with that would that would be too difficult. But there would be places like, hmm, what about going in deeper here and asking and we prompt some questions and all of you stepped up and were willing to be vulnerable and share on a deeper level that.

Kate Houston (14:35)

was just very trusting and incredible. And me and I were so grateful that you did entrust us with that care and we wanted to be care filled with your stories, knowing that.

Katherine Froggatt (14:49)

Mm. Yeah, so powerful. And I know that you know, there are women and contributors who are might still be going through some treatments and I think Mia herself, and I I really draw lots of inspiration from what she's doing and co-authoring this book with you and and that her she herself is going through active treatments. So how how was this

Katherine Froggatt (15:14)

Really I mean, if I if you wouldn't mind speaking on her behalf, like how was that

Kate Houston (15:18)

Yeah, sure.

Katherine Froggatt (15:18)

experience for her too? For Mia

Kate Houston (15:21)

Well,

Kate Houston (15:22)

I think it was she's also been the powerhouse, she's been the spiritual leader, she's been about self-love. And, you know, we've talked about it before, she'll talk about how she opened up to more receiving of love. It was another level, another layer of the onion to peel and receive and accept. And we created grace together because we live in this dominant culture, male culture, structured Western world culture.

Kate Houston (15:51)

to perform a certain way. But we got to create it from a maternal perspective. If there were hard days for one or the other of us, because I was going through surgeries, I'm still in active treatment and that I'm in reconstruction, but I'm not having chemotherapy or anything. But I'm still I have another year. I had a fail and then it caused a lot of need for healing. And so there's just it's just the ultra marathon, right?

Kate Houston (16:20)

So

Katherine Froggatt (16:20)

Yes.

Kate Houston (16:21)

so I really was able to lean in for some things and then she was in support or if she had some downtime because she was ill, I stepped in, or we adjusted timelines because we had to. You know, this is where we give each other grace and it's not a fail or something's wrong. It's guess what? Life is lifing and we're still creating and when there's bumps you slow down. That's a feminine maternal way to be. Creating together.

Kate Houston (16:49)

And then since I've started this new position, this new job, she's had some other things she's led on. So we both have just wonderfully kept open communication, been honest. You know, we we're sisters of another mister, right? This is true for us. So we have moments where we're

Katherine Froggatt (17:05)

Yeah. Yeah.

Kate Houston (17:06)

like scritchy together, we go, let's just clarify, and we clear the air, and there's no it it's just so easy when the decision is to step into something.

Kate Houston (17:17)

with presence and vulnerability and connection, whether it's a girlfriend, whether it's a family member, whether it's a partner, whether it's your kids. That's the message I get from a lot of this. So I think she and I shifted the way in which we also had run things because we run things in an old way, right? That's you know, when you run a business, an entrepreneur is go, go, go

Katherine Froggatt (17:38)

Yeah.

Kate Houston (17:41)

15 hours a day, whatever, you know, but

Katherine Froggatt (17:42)

Yeah.

Kate Houston (17:42)

it's like you can't do that when you're

Kate Houston (17:45)

In treatment, you're not superhuman, you're human and beautiful. And keeping us both acknowledging each other for those moments when we needed to step back or regroup. And then the things that we found was how creative we were when we did have the bursts of energy. When we were rewriting and finishing and on our own timeline of finishing, because you all had finished your part. We're like, We're working it, we're reworking it, the editor's back. There are parts we had to

Katherine Froggatt (18:09)

Yes.

Kate Houston (18:10)

do for our part. And we were committed.

Kate Houston (18:13)

But that creative, there's something about when you really are tapping into your creativity that is life creating and energy creating rather than draining. When you're in that zone of genius, you know, it's just

Katherine Froggatt (18:25)

Yes. Mm.

Kate Houston (18:28)

this amazing thing. So we were we were thrilled to be able to do that work. And sometimes it was powering through, but it was feminine energy, it was creativity. It was like I did five hours just pass? What did I just I mean?

Kate Houston (18:42)

I've been writing, how exciting, you know, so

Katherine Froggatt (18:45)

Yeah, yeah. And I have to speak into it because I think in

Kate Houston (18:49)

Yeah.

Katherine Froggatt (18:49)

my past life, and I always say from twenty sixteen when I was diagnosed to my life net from that point forward, this is my present, right? And my past was like hustle and lots of masculine energy, lots of accomplishing, lots of doing, lots of, you know, just delivering the outcomes for people. And I

Katherine Froggatt (19:11)

Don't know about that feminine energy. I don't know about that creativity. And I think to be fair, the last time I probably felt like there was not enough adoubting in my life on no responsibilities was when I wasn't responsible for anyone apart from, you know, myself. And I think we're not doing that enough for ourselves at the moment. life is hard, life is draining, life is all about the doing, and there is just so much more pressures.

Katherine Froggatt (19:37)

But one thing I've noticed is if I let go of the narratives of what I would say my core belief of accomplishment and slow down and actually give myself time to just be, and to like what you just rightly pointed out, that creative flow of energy, the burst that comes back to us. I think it's almost like I have to let go in order for me to receive that energetic shift

Kate Houston (20:03)

Yes.

Katherine Froggatt (20:05)

that comes

Katherine Froggatt (20:06)

naturally when I lean into my feminine needs. Yeah, does that you know?

Kate Houston (20:10)

Yeah. It's an intuition.

Kate Houston (20:13)

There's a response in an intuitive guttural body fashion. There's a knowing that's not here knowing, it's heart and soul knowing, solar plexus knowing. That's just different when you're in that energy. And we all get to lean into that and find that and bring that forward because it's it's juicy, it's amazing, you know.

Katherine Froggatt (20:36)

Mm.

Kate Houston (20:37)

And I think when we got to work on this, we wanted to be in that energy, both supportive and mentoring in the writing with some structure and some specifics to really help people be concrete. And then when people were in scary places to feel like, okay, you go how deep? Just a little deeper, or not at all, but this is just a suggestion. Are you willing to consider this?

Kate Houston (21:02)

And so I think we walked through with many of the writers where they had, I'm not willing, I'm not willing. And then we would jump on the phone and chat. And I said, That's fine. They'd sleep on it a night or two and they go, Okay, I gave it a shot. And then they're like, my gosh, it was the best decision ever. So I think for us to realize helping women not only with the stories and reading this book, but helping women have the opportunity to write a micro mmR or a moment in time from their experience.

Kate Houston (21:31)

To transmute it, make peace with it, find a home for it, or to release it how they need to, so they have a freedom is is been the best gift out of this experience. We were couldn't possibly have dreamed it up. It just birthed from what we were doing with all of you. And so we're proud

Katherine Froggatt (21:49)

Yeah.

Kate Houston (21:50)

of the product, which is the book. We're also proud of the launch of the writing circle to support other women who then are in or having been in breast cancer.

Kate Houston (22:00)

To take a piece of it and heal from it. But, you know, there's so many great

Katherine Froggatt (22:04)

Yeah.

Kate Houston (22:07)

pieces when I think of the story. For me, one of the things that unraveled as I was even writing was that my cancer story and my love story are intertwined now. I can't have one without the other. My partner,

Katherine Froggatt (22:21)

Mm.

Kate Houston (22:22)

right now, he and I met two months after my mastectomy in active treatment.

Katherine Froggatt (22:31)

Hmm.

Kate Houston (22:31)

And the story, I mean it's in the it's written about in the book how we meet and what was happening and how we connected. And the new news is that we're engaged

Katherine Froggatt (22:44)

Kate

Katherine Froggatt (22:46)

wow this thank you for announcing it here.

Kate Houston (22:48)

Yes.

Kate Houston (22:49)

And what I want to say is that love after breast cancer, I know many women, including some of the women that are in our writing circle that wrote in the book, had partners who left. Who partners who could not be there for them. And I know there are many women going, Great, you know, find your love story, but mine left me. I get it. You know, we've had we were intimately with the women in those stories. And

Kate Houston (23:16)

Love is out there for you. Right? One of the I sat with this with Mia and I thought my heart just sat with the women who had people leaving.

Kate Houston (23:30)

And I kept thinking and feeling in my heart.

Kate Houston (23:35)

I hope every woman who's had that happened to them can it someday get to the place of gratitude that they left and showed them who they really were and didn't waste one more damn minute of their life not being what they needed, wanted, or deserved. It sucks. It wasn't okay. It's not fair. And I hope part of that journey for women who've had that heartache.

Kate Houston (24:04)

Is that they can get to that place.

Kate Houston (24:08)

Part of the writing is to help with that, you know, any of those types of stories or wounds that we felt, family members who turned away, any of those types of things. It's a way to find that peace and transmute it into a healthy intolerance of how you want to live well and not

Katherine Froggatt (24:26)

Yeah.

Kate Houston (24:27)

accept mediocre anymore from anyone. So

Kate Houston (24:32)

My whole life has s spun into a different change. I applied for a job I never thought I would get and I got it.

Katherine Froggatt (24:39)

Yes.

Kate Houston (24:40)

I moved to an area an hour outside of where I was living before to be with my partner, to live in this beautiful place. As my third best part of my life coming now, my kids have just empty nested for me. So it's like this

Katherine Froggatt (24:57)

there's a big shift.

Kate Houston (24:58)

It's a huge lie. I mean, all of this happened

Katherine Froggatt (25:00)

Yes.

Kate Houston (25:01)

at that time and I thought, well, this is a sucky thing to happen right after I'm supposed to have all this time for me. Well, guess what? I got to force myself to have time for me. I'm forced to. Yes, exactly.

Katherine Froggatt (25:10)

Yes. The universe has a way.

Kate Houston (25:14)

Yeah, and there were plenty of tears. frustration, sadness, depression. I had I I felt all the things. But I really that that, you know.

Kate Houston (25:28)

I knew when feelings go through, they pass. And the thing that sticks and that can ruminate are thoughts about my feelings. If I'm hours later spitting about something, it's this, not my feelings or my heart. It's something I'm still believing about myself or questioning, that's putting myself down, you know, not thinking my highest self. And that I mean, those are the opportunities to.

Kate Houston (25:56)

To lean in, ask for support, find a sister, call a sister. There's so many support

Katherine Froggatt (26:01)

Mm.

Kate Houston (26:01)

groups that have anyone on the ready to call. If you have friends that know somebody who are willing to talk like I am, it it it won't matter. You'll become friends after your 20-minute conversation. And

Katherine Froggatt (26:14)

Yes.

Kate Houston (26:15)

you deserve that. So it's the isolation, it's the aloneness, it's the I can't believe anybody would be able to be here for me for the story.

Kate Houston (26:23)

outrageous ro roller coaster of events that unfolds, the fire hose of information. But

Katherine Froggatt (26:29)

Yeah.

Kate Houston (26:30)

you're not alone.

Katherine Froggatt (26:32)

hundred percent, Kate. And I think through this journey that I've had to walk and I was forced to walk it, I have to say, the first thing I was really craving for, especially when I've I've moved away from my home country in Singapore and and being diagnosed in a foreign country in New Zealand, I know no one, I have no family. And I so instantly I felt alone. But I I I sat with myself and

Katherine Froggatt (27:00)

My parents are beautiful humans and they they came and supported my kids, but I somewhat still felt alone and I feel like I needed someone who has gone through something like this to tell me that I'm going to be okay. You know, that I'm just holding that space for me to feel like I I have a chance to not be judged, to not feel ashamed, and just to say, you're gonna be okay. I've done it, you can do it.

Katherine Froggatt (27:29)

And the connectedness is so important for our healing. And I also wanted to chime into what the struggles are in a relationship after you know a diagnosis dysenor.

Kate Houston (27:42)

Yes.

Katherine Froggatt (27:43)

my husband and I we're still together, we're still married, we've still got two kids who are going to be empty nesting us soon. It is 13, they're 13 and 16. But I will say this, Kate, and

Katherine Froggatt (27:58)

It is so hard for us to learn that this point forward in your life with the diagnosis is going to change who you are, who you feel, who I I guess how you feel about yourself. And that would change the way the relationship will be like moving forward. And it's difficult.

Katherine Froggatt (28:21)

I would say it's difficult because it took me two years for me to actually see that my husband was living in deep fear and anxiety

Kate Houston (28:28)

Mm.

Katherine Froggatt (28:28)

since the diagnosis. But I was so focused on my treatments and how I'm feeling and how I'm not feeling some days. And

Kate Houston (28:35)

Mm-hmm.

Katherine Froggatt (28:36)

and this the connection between us as a couple has truly just kind of diminished, right? The light, the the

Kate Houston (28:44)

Yeah.

Katherine Froggatt (28:45)

The excitement, the invigoration, all of that trust in what you know as life to be is so different. And so we've had to really recreate and redraw what a relationship looks like for us. And I'm just really grateful. And you know, gratitude is in the forefront every day for me. It's like I'm grateful that I've still got him supporting me. We've got the two kids and they're happy, they're healthy, and I every day is a gift. It is a gift for me.

Kate Houston (29:13)

Yes.

Katherine Froggatt (29:14)

You know, that I get to create some new memories. But it didn't come without the struggles.

Kate Houston (29:20)

Gosh, yeah. I think that's part of it too, is that with the title The Cancer of the Gift, it's just allowing for possibility to open up the door to consider following the struggle that there can be something beautiful that bursts and blossoms. Everybody's a little bit different, what that might be. Some people have strengthened relationships in a deeper way, a different way.

Kate Houston (29:47)

It shook up relationships to wake up a little bit and to be more intimate and vulnerable, you know. We do what we do. And then even in this type of thing, if you know, if you like I have a partner maybe that does or doesn't share emotion, this is just another way they're going to either not do that and breaking down

Katherine Froggatt (30:05)

Yeah.

Kate Houston (30:05)

those walls and barriers to share with each other vulnerably your truth and

Katherine Froggatt (30:10)

Mm-hmm.

Kate Houston (30:10)

to be strong enough to hold the foundation of the relationship together.

Kate Houston (30:16)

Because you've committed to still being in it, you know, and you can still have those challenging conversations without every conversation being an exit statement, you know, or making you feel like it's an out the door moment. And it's important because we have to share the real truths and fears along with the strength. when you were talking about parents, I had incredibly supportive parents, but I don't know, that parental heartache is so powerful.

Kate Houston (30:47)

That it was hard for them to be strong for me, not because I didn't want to be. It just wasn't in their faculty of skills being the parent of the diagnosed, you know. So

Katherine Froggatt (30:59)

Yeah.

Kate Houston (30:59)

having these other women who could have the twisted humor with me. You

Katherine Froggatt (31:05)

Hmm.

Kate Houston (31:05)

get really funny. There's no TMI once you start this journey with ladies. And you can say anything about anything and we're all good

Katherine Froggatt (31:11)

Yeah.

Kate Houston (31:11)

with it, right? You're like, no problem. Say it, let it out, do whatever you need to do.

Kate Houston (31:17)

And there's

Katherine Froggatt (31:17)

Yeah.

Kate Houston (31:17)

a freedom in that that just makes us all feel like we can be ourselves. And that I think is the gift of this sisterhood. Nobody wishes to be a part of, but once we're in it, we're grateful the sisters are there to be a support. It's so incredible. So so invigorating, so life changing.

Katherine Froggatt (31:37)

Indeed. Life changing indeed. And I love it that I can feel comfortable about just not wanting to you know, like I I don't wanna hold anything back. I just wanna explode and be like be like my thirteen year old where I can just be fully expressive and not be judged, you know? And I think having that safe container to be able to do that.

Katherine Froggatt (32:01)

Just makes it feel so uplifting for us, especially when we feel like, you know, some days it's just we're down in a dumps and we're not feeling we're not supposed to be feeling this way. But then, you know, we're having those wrestling with those emotions of like, I need to be a certain way with my children and I can't show them how I'm feeling because I don't want them to see that I'm crumbling. But

Kate Houston (32:22)

Yeah.

Katherine Froggatt (32:23)

why are we letting this hold us down? Why are we making ourselves or creating these,

Katherine Froggatt (32:30)

persona of how we should be, I mean some days it's true. Life can be really tough and life can feel really hard. But what if we can be in that safe little room together like we are right now with you, Kate, like just knowing that what we're feeling is the raw, organic real person perspective.

Kate Houston (32:54)

So true. And I believe one of our goals when we were writing, or what showed up when we were writing, me and I both realized there was pain and grief and challenges and big struggles we'd already lived through. That this was just another event that we could create and decide if it was a traumatic event that was going to teach us something or become trauma that impacted us.

Kate Houston (33:22)

to hold us back, to become a limiting belief, or to become a you know a barrier for us to live full out. And instead we decided to like place it in our life timeline where it belongs. It was a traumatic event. There's things about it that still shock the crap

Katherine Froggatt (33:40)

Yeah.

Kate Houston (33:41)

out of me. Like, knowing that things

Katherine Froggatt (33:43)

With you, I'm with you.

Kate Houston (33:44)

yeah, things still pivot. We're like, well I didn't know that was gonna happen, but you just sort of accept surrender to the unknown.

Kate Houston (33:52)

I feel like my biggest joy of the authentic moments with people were those that could be present in the unknown with me and really be empathetic and say, shit, this sucks. F cancer.

Katherine Froggatt (34:05)

Yeah.

Kate Houston (34:06)

Holy crap. And just sit with me in the unknown and with nothing to say because there is nothing to say. And that's a true moment. And I feel that those are the people that are my real people. Those are my closest friends now.

Kate Houston (34:22)

Who could be in that intimacy with me? It was another opportunity to be in relationship with somebody at a level that is so vulnerable and true. Inviting somebody in when you are willing to receive and ask for support, and somebody else having to feel like they are willing and honorable enough and worthy enough to be that person for you. So it's just, you know, everybody's trying to get there, learn our learn, learn our lessons, grow and

Kate Houston (34:52)

But this has just been one of many traumatic events in my life. I feel like I could be a hallmark movie of many, many things that people would say, how did all that happen to one person? And I'm sure you have some of that too, where you're like, this is how many lifetimes

Katherine Froggatt (35:02)

Yeah. cake.

Kate Houston (35:05)

have I lived? And this is just one small another thing that happened. And I have plenty of wonderful things that counter those not so wonderful events. And each one I get to choose. What do I want to make it mean? What did I decide to believe from that?

Kate Houston (35:22)

How did I decide to make it be a catalyst moving me forward, or to be a barrier that's holding me back? And I think the best defiance I can do is choosing the silver lining, finding my joy, finding my grace, finding my bliss, and following it and going for outrageous things and having outrageous fun and joy in my life and and creating that with others.

Katherine Froggatt (35:50)

Yeah, yeah. The the the two well the best thing someone told me who has walked this journey whilst I was navigating mine, she said, Be in the pictures with your children, right? Create the memories. And I knew and I wrote this in my book, and I think and I I shared with you as well, Kate, I said, Wow, you know, like I thought I had, you know, ten years on this year, right?

Katherine Froggatt (36:20)

And I thought I've worked through all of these moments. As it repeated, as it came up, I worked through it and I, you know, created that space for myself. I looked for the right people to s to surround myself with, you know, I thought I worked through it. But when I set to write about those moments and to pen it down, I realized that when I set and allow those emotions to flow again, wow, I've gone deeper again.

Katherine Froggatt (36:48)

You know, I've gone, I've allowed another layer of that onion to be peeled. And so I realized that I further embedded what I already know, but through years of practice, and it's kind of just now made its complete stamp in my heart. And I know that when I say my children are my strongest reason for living and that they are my North Star and I want to, you know, do everything within my power.

Katherine Froggatt (37:18)

To invest in me before I can care for others. And that was a big shift because coming from an Asian background, it would have been everything for others, not me. And I've had to flip that around for me.

Kate Houston (37:31)

Mm-hmm.

Katherine Froggatt (37:32)

And so I just want to say that sometimes this big identity shift that we know that is present right now for us, it does not mean that we just arrive at it.

Katherine Froggatt (37:43)

We we still

Kate Houston (37:44)

Yeah.

Katherine Froggatt (37:44)

need to keep working through it, isn't it? Like it's just another layer is another layer of unraveling

Kate Houston (37:46)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Katherine Froggatt (37:49)

and when you're feeling into it, when you're actually having this strong, unshakable belief, that belief would start to change and shift from day one to what it is now. And it's just kind of I've learned to truly love myself throughout those ten years. I think it was massively powerful.

Kate Houston (38:07)

Yes.

Kate Houston (38:12)

Yes. And I feel too when there's something about pen to paper, writing with your hands, typing. I often like to start with writing pencil or pen and then transferring it into the computer. There's an opportunity, something happens when we're reflecting on an experience in our life where we become omniscient, a third character. We're looking at ourselves out here.

Kate Houston (38:42)

And we're looking at the events out here, but we're looking at it from this omniscient, all-knowing perspective. When we think about it, not by writing, it's just we're in it as this person. But there's a new perspective that happens in the writing process that's I don't know if it's part of psyche. I don't know why it works so well, but it allows for that.

Kate Houston (39:04)

Aha, an opening and release to happen because I think there is just a little bit of a spark or a shift, whether it's a specific tangible thing one could point to and say, my gosh, I saw this differently, or just the experience radiated an energy and that just sent shivers, right? One of our writers said she

Katherine Froggatt (39:23)

Yes.

Kate Houston (39:23)

just had shivers from top to bottom and just burst out crying and it was the the

Katherine Froggatt (39:27)

Yeah.

Kate Houston (39:28)

body nervous system.

Kate Houston (39:30)

was allowed to release cause she'd released it on paper, right? And she it was just this weight was lifted, she didn't even know she had. So you never know how writing, I think that's why people journal and do things like that too, is because it gets it out on paper at least and you can reflect back and and r write about it. But I think the micro memoirs were just unique because it was really about being in the emotional center. Cause another thing we ladies who are powerhouses like to do is be very heady.

Kate Houston (39:59)

Very thinking, very smart, very

Katherine Froggatt (40:00)

totally.

Kate Houston (40:01)

intel intellectual. So

Katherine Froggatt (40:04)

It's all here.

Kate Houston (40:05)

this gets a little backburner. And so it was really presencing us to emotion and heart. And every time there was a prompt we sent out to one of you, me and I also said, Okay, well about us? Well, where are we getting to be a little more in the heart and less about the head? And so a lot of the book transformed as we were writing and rewriting.

Kate Houston (40:28)

Our parts too, as you all were drafting your parts, which made it this memoir instead of a sort of spiritual kind of guiding kind of book. It's not it's really is a personal memoir story of many women. And I think it's a universal truth of the struggles we all go through of going up through ups and downs of big challenges in our lives that seem insurmountable. And in this book it's

Katherine Froggatt (40:53)

Yeah.

Kate Houston (40:53)

breast cancer is the connector, but it there's many things, like we said, we've all gone through that we

Kate Houston (40:58)

get to have the power to release or strangle us in our freedoms. And we have that opportunity to choose.

Katherine Froggatt (41:07)

Yeah, yeah.

Kate Houston (41:09)

But I really hope that this really allows women to feel not isolated if you've been diagnosed recently, if you don't know where to turn, if you're overwhelmed by the fire hose of information, you're not alone. No one is gonna think anything of you except for love, hugs, sisterhood and and giving you tension and care where you need it. I know some breasty sisters

Kate Houston (41:35)

Who open their homes if nobody has a place to stay after a mastectomy surgery because they don't have a spot they can be in, or they have stairs, or whatever it might be. I mean, it's that kind of holistic, unconditional love that we each get to receive. So I invite every one of you who may be fearing the next steps to remember to lean into and allow yourself to receive and ask.

Kate Houston (42:03)

Some and when people say no, believe them and it's okay and don't make it about you because nothing's wrong with you. That person doesn't have the capacity to be there with you, period. And you deserve people have the capacity to be with you in your life in all the ways. And this is one of the ways we get to practice that is by leaning into those who can stand in and be with us during this kind of diagnosis and treatment.

Katherine Froggatt (42:31)

Yeah, I wholeheartedly agree with you. And I might also add to what you've just said, which is super powerful and really useful, is one thing that I've seen and I've noticed for myself and also for women that I work with, that as soon as we are ready, and this can't be rushed, right? We we do need to acknowledge how hard it is to to n learn to navigate this diagnosis. But also

Katherine Froggatt (42:59)

Knowing that when you are ready, you can start living differently. You can choose that, hey, this happened, yes, but I'm not going to live the rest of my life as a patient.

Kate Houston (43:11)

Yes.

Katherine Froggatt (43:12)

I can choose to live my best life whilst I'm going through all of these things, all of these side effects, all of these permanent fe feelings of neuropathy, perhaps, that you're feeling,

Kate Houston (43:22)

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Katherine Froggatt (43:24)

the joint eggs of the immunotherapy, whatever that might be.

Katherine Froggatt (43:29)

That does not define the way I live. I can choose, like what you rightly shared, I can choose to make meaning of this and what this is showing me, and I can choose to live differently or I can choose to today do something that brings joy in my life. And I can put how I feel about the diagnosis aside and live like I didn't have it in the first place or that this does not define me.

Katherine Froggatt (43:58)

So I guess what I'm saying is we can choose. We do have a choice. And sometimes we lose that whilst we're going through all of the traumatic experiences

Kate Houston (44:05)

Yes. Yes.

Katherine Froggatt (44:08)

of what it is.

Kate Houston (44:10)

Yes. One of the things I remembered was when I was speaking with the doctors and they give you this chart, you know, when we're talking about it and for prognosis in the future, ten years out, right? How many people out of a hundred will be alive, right? And where you

Katherine Froggatt (44:25)

Mm. Yes.

Kate Houston (44:27)

are in that chart with breast cancer as part of your diagnosis. And I it was all dots. It was a hundred dots, right?

Kate Houston (44:34)

First, today is a hundred dots. In a ten years there are ninety-five dots, five people have died, women will have died from whatever. And that my risk was two more dots. But then I'm like, I have not been spending the last 53 years of my life worried about being one of those five dots that's gonna die of any number of things, poisonous snake bites, falling pianos, car accident. Like that's five percent. I have not thought a minute about being one of those five percent.

Kate Houston (45:05)

And that's twice as likely to be an unknown cause that I am not aware of than my two dots of breast cancer. So I thought, hello, wake up, Kate. Let's have a reality check of like where am I putting my attention? Any of those things could happen, but right now I'm alive. Right now I have choices. Right now I can choose to be joyful. Right now I can lean in and leap in and say, What the heck? Let's try for love. Why not? I've been married before.

Kate Houston (45:35)

So, you know, jumping in is jumping in is scary, right? But it's like

Katherine Froggatt (45:35)

Yes, Kate, of course. Yeah. Yeah.

Kate Houston (45:40)

if not now, when?

Katherine Froggatt (45:42)

Yeah. Yeah.

Kate Houston (45:43)

And it start building

Kate Houston (45:44)

the life that that's joyful, creative, or whatever is your passion. You know, I think we're going to start getting that gift back to us as we hit our older years and our empty nester years. And what do we want that to be when we don't have I think for for men when they lose the title of their job, it's very hard when they retire to know what to do with themselves. But what do we do when we lose the active mother title?

Kate Houston (46:12)

You know, it's that same job, right? That we take very seriously.

Katherine Froggatt (46:16)

Exactly. Yep.

Kate Houston (46:18)

I like to be consultants to my children. I love that my fur my oldest child, when he moved to school, called me three times his freshman year. That's it. Didn't text very much. It meant he didn't need me to solve problems, which meant I had given tools to solve problems.

Kate Houston (46:38)

And a few times when he called, it's when he was sick and didn't have skills and he was overwhelmed. And I got to emotionally just be with him and coach him and consult, but I didn't lead him to an answer. He already had the skills, and I was so proud of that. So I like being consultant now. And I have the energy now to keep writing, to do writing circles, to maybe write more stories

Katherine Froggatt (46:59)

Yeah.

Kate Houston (47:00)

from my crazy wacky life that I had.

Katherine Froggatt (47:03)

You inspire me, Kate. I I did I did say

Katherine Froggatt (47:06)

to you that you guys through this micro memoir, I am now really I am actually thinking to myself, I I can do this. I can I can probably just start by writing something small. And then, you know, whether it becomes a big book or a small book or even a another level of another memoir, part of my story, I mean it's okay. It's that discovery of

Katherine Froggatt (47:31)

Circling back to that feminine creative energy that so many of us are too busy living in imbalance of the masculine energy and just pushing on and white knuckling through things. What if we can create the opportunity for us to do the feminine work and the creative flow that comes to us naturally? And so

Kate Houston (47:52)

Wow.

Katherine Froggatt (47:52)

I I just want to say how grateful I am for this opportunity, Kate, because this has been a way of expressing and this is it.

Katherine Froggatt (48:01)

It's just incredibly healing for myself, you, Mia, and all of the other seven contributors that collaborated

Kate Houston (48:08)

Yes.

Katherine Froggatt (48:08)

on this book. And it's such a magical opportunity for us to go through it. And hopefully who whoever would pick up the book and is reading the book will probably find a lot of connectedness through the book in each of our individual stories. So

Kate Houston (48:27)

Yes,

Kate Houston (48:29)

yes.

Katherine Froggatt (48:29)

What an amazing project, Kate, that you've offered for us and and for the rest

Kate Houston (48:32)

Yes.

Katherine Froggatt (48:33)

of the women who are going to read the book as well.

Kate Houston (48:36)

Absolutely. And I think it's a book that friends of people going through this. My good friend who was the caretaker for me during my mastectomy recovery, really great woman, close, one of my besties. But she read this and cried because she saw a different side that I didn't even share. I mean, I'm when you're healing you don't you're not imparting this the words the way you can when you write a little bit later.

Kate Houston (49:03)

And she just said, wow. And she actually was sharing how she it opened her up to seeing somebody else's diagnosis that she knew in a different light and how she needed to be a little more compassionate in some ways than she had been about this other person with something else going on. Different situation relationship, but it kind of opened her up in a different way when she's like, Wow, this is a universal thing. I need to respond differently.

Kate Houston (49:30)

And decide what I'm if what am I capable of doing? And I said that's the most important thing. Just be honest about what you can and cannot do. Because people

Katherine Froggatt (49:38)

Mm.

Kate Houston (49:38)

need commitment. In or out. Don't don't say yes and then mean no, because if I don't get a ride, that's a big deal. Or and it's not a judgment. It's just be be honest about your capabilities with each other. Honesty is the best gift we can give each other. It sometimes feels harsh, but it's true. If we can be honest first with ourselves.

Kate Houston (50:00)

And then share that

Katherine Froggatt (50:01)

Yeah.

Kate Houston (50:01)

truth with others as diplomatically as we can. But I think that's,

Katherine Froggatt (50:05)

Yeah.

Kate Houston (50:06)

you know, part of what we can gain from all of this. And so caregivers and family members can read this and have a window into that world, not just women who've gone through this or are going through it. And yeah, I'm so excited. I'm so excited for all of this. And if anybody's interested in knowing more about the writing circle, I'm sure you'll share a little bit about that too, if you're open to it.

Katherine Froggatt (50:29)

Yeah.

Kate Houston (50:30)

Yeah.

Katherine Froggatt (50:30)

Yeah.

Katherine Froggatt (50:31)

Well Kate, I I'm going to start to, you know, really honor your time. I know you're you're taking time to chat

Kate Houston (50:35)

Yeah. Yes, thank you.

Katherine Froggatt (50:38)

during your lunch break. So

Kate Houston (50:40)

Mm-hmm.

Katherine Froggatt (50:41)

last and final question, Kate. What would be something that you wish you were told before you got your diagnosis and what would you like to share with someone sitting with that right now?

Kate Houston (50:55)

Ooh, there's so much. That's a good question. first of all

Kate Houston (51:05)

Understand that every step before you actually have removed the lump or mass is a guesstimate of what they think it is. That the only way to truly know size, stage, etc., is once it's been removed and biopsied. A lot of women get surprised that things change from

Kate Houston (51:33)

Mammogram to MRI to all of those are tools to try to diagnose it the best they can. But it it makes sense that until you actually physically remove it and they see it and they can do that. So don't be surprised if it changes. That is typical. It's our common maybe. And it's they're doing their best with the least invasive things and they progress that. So don't

Kate Houston (52:02)

Panic if it gets a little bit different along the way, that a lot of women have that. Also, I think it's that there's a many, many versions of breast cancer that I didn't know existed.

Katherine Froggatt (52:11)

Yeah.

Kate Houston (52:12)

And that whatever your version is, find your people within that world because they're the experts because they've been there before you. And my version may not have the same kind of content to share as somebody else's version. So finding your people, and there's

Kate Houston (52:31)

Plenty of threads and Facebook groups for individual types. I mean, I can't believe it. And I would also say,

Kate Houston (52:41)

Asking your doctors a lot about how things will affect you and your sensuality and sexuality and and your lady bits. Because women don't

Katherine Froggatt (52:49)

Yes.

Kate Houston (52:50)

talk about it, they don't know about it, and then things get disrupted or halted or become painful, and women go, I can't believe I made choices X, Y, and Z that created this problem because nobody really laid out what those problems might be. Now not everybody has those problems, but I think it's find out.

Kate Houston (53:10)

Because, you know,

Katherine Froggatt (53:10)

Yeah.

Kate Houston (53:11)

that gives you information to make an informed decision of whatever your your path is based on all the data, you know. And as a librarian, I was still overwhelmed with information. And I think the most important thing I can say is that I had a good friend who had been a breasty sister for over twenty years and she'd talked to many, many of her friends, unfortunately, including me, who got diagnosed, and she said, before you make your final big decision.

Kate Houston (53:39)

Any number of the big decisions. Wait for you to have a full body hell yes. If you're

Katherine Froggatt (53:45)

Mm.

Kate Houston (53:45)

at all hemming and hawing and questioning, you're not there yet.

Katherine Froggatt (53:49)

Yeah. Yeah.

Kate Houston (53:50)

And then when you know,

Kate Houston (53:52)

you just you don't you have a certainty in your decision and you don't look back. You know you've hit it. Like every one of us, I think, whatever our decisions were, it was we're done, this is the decision. I'm not looking at it again. I feel solid about it. There's something that that just is centered in the body, in that decision. So it could

Katherine Froggatt (54:10)

Hmm. Yeah.

Kate Houston (54:13)

take weeks, it could take months, you know. Sometimes you have to make decisions more quickly than others, but really

Kate Houston (54:19)

dive into knowing your body. And I think part of this journey is really getting to know your body so much more than you ever did before.

Katherine Froggatt (54:27)

Absolutely, Kate. And I love that last bit where we don't need to rush into it. We could trust that there is a knowing and a wisdom within us that can give us the clarity. And we just allow ourselves to just slow, just breathe, and just be a little bit more grounded and that will come. It's just so hard for us to trust it at the early days when we're just in that threat response and we're like, my gosh,

Kate Houston (54:54)

yeah.

Katherine Froggatt (54:54)

what's happening? But you're right.

Katherine Froggatt (54:56)

It's it's really the knowing and the trusting that when it comes together there is that certain landing of that's it, you know, I know it. This this is true for me. And this is what clinical knowledge does not give us, does not guide us

Kate Houston (55:12)

No.

Katherine Froggatt (55:12)

to to learn how to find the answers within ourselves. And I'm really appreciative of you sharing that because that's such a great wisdom that I wish I knew as well, like ten years ago when I was acting on.

Katherine Froggatt (55:25)

Okay, so you're telling me to do this, I'll do this all and you know I want to get rid of all my risk. So

Kate Houston (55:31)

Mm.

Katherine Froggatt (55:32)

so with you on that, Kate. Thank you. Thank you for such a rich conversation. and I

Kate Houston (55:36)

Thank you.

Katherine Froggatt (55:38)

I just would like you to share how we can find this book. how do we get ordering? Tell me.

Kate Houston (55:45)

fabulous. Well, you can go to cancerthegift.com. It is the book name. And on there we have a lot of information about the book where you can order it, some information about the writing circle, and joining the wait list for our next round of writing circle if you're interested, getting on our email list, and becoming part of our community where we're going to connect and support each other.

Kate Houston (56:13)

In the long run, because here's the thing, I'm determined with many others to be a survivor of this for decades upon decades. We get to b live in an unprecedented time where it doesn't have to be a fatal diagnosis, even if it's a metastic diagnosis. Some like I think there's so much happening now that it's not a death sentence.

Kate Houston (56:41)

And I think that's another thing I want women to know. There's a lot in between long before you get to that state for most women and most types of breast cancer. Everything's a little unique. But you know, I think it's not a hundred percent absolute end of life stamp that I think some of us panicked about when we heard about our diagnoses until

Katherine Froggatt (57:00)

Yes. Hmm.

Kate Houston (57:03)

we learn more and realize that there's a lot of incredible work in many fronts, right?

Kate Houston (57:12)

That are supporting healing and health and well being for this.

Katherine Froggatt (57:18)

Thank you, Kate. I will put the link in the show notes. And

Kate Houston (57:21)

Thank you.

Katherine Froggatt (57:21)

if this conversation that we shared today, Kate and I, we have this really enriching conversation. And if it's moved something in you, connect with us. find us on social media. And if you have a friend who is standing in this really nervous stage right now, in the silence of what feels like, you know, this this whole thing of being alone and that you don't know anyone else that's had

Katherine Froggatt (57:47)

That has successful stories to inspire you. Well, we are a group of ladies that have gone through it and are some still going through treatments. Please share this with them. because I feel that the more we are connected, the more we support each other as breasty sisters, like what you said, Kate. Breasty sisters, I love this. let's all get connected because when we are going through treatments, when we're going through any sort of recovery, it is never nice going at it alone. So thank you so

Kate Houston (58:16)

And

Katherine Froggatt (58:16)

much, Kate.

Kate Houston (58:17)

thank you so much for this opportunity and for being such a graceful and vulnerable writer of your micro memoir and the book. It absolutely was stellar to be a part of this project with us and could not have made the book what it is without you.

Katherine Froggatt (58:34)

Thank you, Kate. I can't wait to share it with the world and you know, it's such a magnificent project that you and Mia have put together and all of us are so much more connected and so much more trusting of each other ever since that project. So I'm immensely grateful. Thank you.

Kate Houston (58:54)

Yeah.